Jake Lewellen (00:00.994) Welcome back to another episode of the… Ow. Welcome back to another episode of the Bourbon Lens with your host, Jake and Scott. We’re going to be tackling one of the most interesting conversations in bourbon happening right now. Non-distilling producers, independent bottlers, and we’re going to be talking specifically about a few of these whiskies here on the podcast. So sit back and buckle into the latest episode of the Bourbon Lens. Scott, I’m excited to unpack something that for me has been even confusing today as we talk about independent bottlers and non-distilling producers. But before we get going, we are getting a little spring wave of weather here in the great state of Kentucky. How many times have you had to cut your grass so far? Scott – BourbonLens (00:47.296) only once but I need to cut it a second time for sure. Jake Lewellen (00:52.36) I’m kind of praying that the weather holds off. I invested in my own lawnmower this year, trying to save some money, know, got to do the things. And welcome to adulthood. Well, you know, it was adulthood to be lazy and spend money on things I didn’t need to spend money on, like a lawnmower service when I’m very capable of cutting my own grass. Scott – BourbonLens (01:00.418) Welcome to adulthood. Jake Lewellen (01:15.116) So I’m hoping it doesn’t rain and it holds off and I can get one more cut in. I actually enjoy being out there for about an hour and a half cutting the grass, even though I have a terrible hill that I have to cut. I enjoyed it. I’m so excited to get back out there and do it again soon. Scott – BourbonLens (01:28.567) Don’t tumble down the hill. Jake Lewellen (01:30.624) No, if I tumble down the hill, I will be going to the ER because the lawnmower is coming on top of me. So we’re going to be safe. put on the outdoor hiking boots to cut the grass. It may look a little weird, but you got to do what you got to do. Scott – BourbonLens (01:37.783) Yeah, not a pretty sight. Scott – BourbonLens (01:48.875) Yeah, I need to get out there too, but it did rain yesterday, so I’m sure it’ll go like crazy. It’s probably ready for a third cut by now. Jake Lewellen (01:56.854) I’m not gonna be the New Balance Monarch guy, or the Nike Monarch guy, like you know, the old dad shoes that you’re gifted a pair of when you have a child. I’m not gonna be that guy. I gotta do the combat boots, walking around. Scott – BourbonLens (02:13.302) Yeah, just find the oldest pair of shoes and just retire them to lawn cutting duty. Jake Lewellen (02:18.412) I see I would do that, but mine also have no tread. So again, the hill, don’t want Jake to die. Scott – BourbonLens (02:24.022) Right, right. You need some true work boots. Jake Lewellen (02:27.63) I need grip. Yep. So let’s dive into this conversation. you know, there’s a lot of things happening right now. We had a conversation going on in our discord. If you are not part of our Patreon, it’s a great time to join patreon.com backslash bourbon lens and join the conversation with us. But we were talking about non-distilling producers and independent bottlers in the in the chat the other day and it got us to thinking, know, let’s, have a conversation more out and about. It’s been featured on, you know, bourbon pursuit lately. I’ve heard it, you know, just as topics of conversation within the social media bourbon influencer sphere as well. Before we get into like, what are the differences and what they are when you think personally, Scott Dilley thinks of non producing distillers and independent bottlers. What do you think of? Scott – BourbonLens (03:22.497) Yeah. I mean, it used to kind of be a bad word in bourbon, but you know, once the sources were kind of identified and people said like, these are the top notch sources of whiskey, like where to go to get it. It kind of changed the conversation. And then it became more of like a hunt for like the nerds to say like, well, this is probably 13 year old wild Turkey or 12 year old Barton or 15 year beam. So it’s like, then it became like an extra little incentive to go hunt because a lot of the big guys weren’t releasing those age stated. those age-stated releases and you kind of had to like find it yourself. So I thought that was kind of an interesting dynamic and change. I’m sure we’re going through another change right now with a surplus on the market or there will be an even larger surplus on the market. some of those NDPs and independent bottlers might be able to capitalize on that. So especially the established brands. Jake Lewellen (04:10.018) Mm-hmm. Jake Lewellen (04:32.14) Yeah. So when you think of an independent bottler, like what American or world whiskey people do you think of when you think of independent bottlers? Scott – BourbonLens (04:43.904) Yeah, so I mean, Lost Lantern is probably at the top of the heap right now in terms of like American whiskey, just because of what they do for the industry. Really? It’s like kind of what we do on the podcast side. It’s like, we highlight distilleries, we highlight the distillers, the, people that put in the work on the brands and build the, build the distillery fan base. So it’s like, kind of like, you know, I like that they Jake Lewellen (04:53.086) Mm-hmm. Yep. Scott – BourbonLens (05:13.366) prominently feature the distilleries and then you got like Scotch malt whiskey society, which I’m not a big whiskey drinker, but or a Scotch whiskey drinker, but a lot of people are and seek out some of those more rare and limited distilleries and I think they even like have some like ghost distilleries like shuttered distilleries and they go back and pull stocks from from their old distillery. So I just think it’s cool for to feature rather than try to like hide where it came from. Jake Lewellen (05:47.694) 100%. And I think we had single cast nation on the podcast last year. They’re a good one. kind of blend American and Scotch. Signatory is one that I actually think of a lot because our friend Brandon, the Daily Dram, he poured a 30 year old Dalmore signatory that like turned me on to scotch. was like, scotch can be non-peated, right? And enjoyable, right? So those things, those conversations have happened in my sphere of influence to turn me on to other forms of whiskey outside of America. And so I think independent bottlers are a great way, I think, to help craft brands. think you hit the nail on the Scott – BourbonLens (06:11.479) Mm. Jake Lewellen (06:27.664) It’s about transparency. It’s where it’s from. It’s highlighting what that is and then you may want to go explore You know, whatever distillery that is whether it’s like a whiskey acres or a you know, fray ranch, right? Even if you can’t get fray ranch on the East Coast, you may be able to get it through Lost Lantern as an independent bottler or you know, any of the other random brands that they have highlighted throughout the years, it’s a great way to conglomerate and then for a consumer to say, I like that one in that release. Let me go and try to source something myself. Scott – BourbonLens (07:05.129) Right. It kind of gives the smaller distilleries a little bit of like street cred, right? There is a highly reputable team that’s saying this is great whiskey from this source. We’re putting our name on it. We’re putting their name on it. We think you will like this. You know, if you like this, then you should go check out some of their other releases as well. So it kind of really opened up new doors for, for people to explore. Jake Lewellen (07:11.095) Mm-hmm. Jake Lewellen (07:34.37) Yeah, for sure. And then we move to the non-distiller producer, right? This has, like you mentioned, have been a naughty word for a long time, just like blended whiskey or blending whiskey together. And that’s what a lot of NDPs do. So when you think of prominent NDPs, what distilleries kind of come to mind? Scott – BourbonLens (07:57.472) Man, well, it used to be like the Templeton’s of the world, you know, like they had older rye whiskey stocks that were from MGP and, know, in the case of like Templeton, you know, they weren’t as honest about it in the early days, but now that they’re producing their own rye whiskey in Templeton, Iowa, you know, it’s, it’s kind of Jake Lewellen (08:02.787) Mm-hmm. Scott – BourbonLens (08:25.887) Gone the opposite way. It’s like now our stuff is ready and like you should try what we’re making because we’ve been doing this for so long and we know what good whiskey should be. I mean, hell there’s, there’s been so many non-distilling producers, even the big guys. Yeah. Even the big guys. Yeah. Sagamore, which bullet bullet bullet is another one that people don’t really think about, you know, they now produce their own whiskey and they’re probably would number the Jake Lewellen (08:35.15) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (08:40.686) I mean, Sagamore started that exact way, you know? Jake Lewellen (08:46.648) Smooth Ambler started that way with old Scout. Will it? yeah, pull it. Scott – BourbonLens (08:55.552) know, top five whiskeys in the world just in terms of recognition, know, recognition, brand recognition on the bar and, know, with bartenders and things like that. So it’s, all over the board. I mean, it could be small guys can be really, really big guys too. Jake Lewellen (09:05.368) Yeah, and then you… Jake Lewellen (09:10.754) And then you have up and covers, have dark arts, you’ve got pursuit spirits, you’ve got new Lou and chase has done a variety of different things at new Lou to create those blends, whether it’s new Louisville, the new Lou batches, single barrels, right? I’ve done a ton there. And that’s where I think it’s interesting that non producing distillers can kind of cross into the independent bottler with the single barrel types programs that they can run. but the disclosure is not always there, right? And so that’s really interesting. And then you have someone like Bardstown Bourbon Company that, you know, kind of started as a non-producing distiller, right? With the Discovery series as well as… Scott – BourbonLens (09:42.165) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (09:54.206) the fusion series and that has fusions retired. And they started to put their own make into discovery, but even they, they still have that zest to buy barrels and collaborate and build things on top of it. So even the big, bigger new brands are still collaborative in that way. Scott – BourbonLens (10:12.127) Yeah, and then you got the cult brands, know, like rare character. And they’ve had several offshoots of their brand as well. Jake Lewellen (10:16.995) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (10:21.117) Mm-hmm. Scott – BourbonLens (10:22.419) you know, restore, you know, bring him back old brand names. Brooks Hill and what, what was the latest one? No, Black Maple Hill. Yeah. They forgot about that one. Hearst, no, that’s a ride, right? Jake Lewellen (10:25.153) Old labels. Jake Lewellen (10:31.458) Black Maple Hill. Jake Lewellen (10:35.554) Hersh Knoll. Yep, that’s the rye whiskey. Scott – BourbonLens (10:41.361) Yeah, so it’s, it runs the gamut. And I think that those, those cult brands like Rare Character probably thrive on a little bit of mystery and a little bit of like, like behind the scenes chatter about like what the real source is, where it really came from, how old it is, you know, what makes this barrel special versus something else or, Jake Lewellen (10:52.29) Mm-hmm. Scott – BourbonLens (11:10.5) know, it’s sister barrel, so they kind of like, feed into it and do a really good job of it, obviously. So Jake Lewellen (11:17.655) Yeah. And it’s interesting here. We have a quote on, you know, like a sources is lost lantern as an independent bottler. And, know, they say on their website, actually that there’s some overlap that exists. All independent bottles are technically NDPs. They don’t distill, but not all NDPs operate like a traditional independent bottler. so in the U S the term independent bottler is increasingly used for more transparent single cast focused companies to distinguish them from a generic source NDP where. you have an NDP that’s brand focused. We created this brand, we’re gonna do something unique, we’re gonna take components from X, Y, and Z, and we’re gonna blend it together to make our own experience, right? Our own liquid, whether that is like a whiskey house or a pursuit spirits where Kenny and Ryan have sourced from New York and they source from… Maryland, they sourced from Kentucky, you know, they’re taking all that together to make a component from those places to make really good whiskey. So it’s interesting to kind of see the runway in between them. And it’s also interesting to see the rise of the independent bottler growing in the US, where the rise of the NDP hasn’t been growing elsewhere outside of the United States. So it just shows you there’s still a craving for whiskey and more types of whiskey here in the US. even though we’ve seen a little bit of an economic downturn from a purchasing habit perspective. Scott – BourbonLens (12:48.818) Yeah, everybody’s tightening their wallets for sure. So I think the NDPs and independent bottlers will probably have to look at their pricing and, try to find ways to be more, well, to be profitable. First of all, depending on, you know, when they acquired the stocks, but Jake Lewellen (13:05.774) Yeah. Scott – BourbonLens (13:08.638) Then also to just be competitive with some of the larger guys and say what makes us different. You know, we’re not a commodity whiskey. It’s, it’s more nuanced. It’s more intentional. it is like we’re relying on our blending expertise and that, know, in the case of single barrels is just identifying the single barrels. But yeah, even like what the reveries, you know, with, takes thing, you know, he’s got Jake Lewellen (13:34.86) Yeah. Scott – BourbonLens (13:37.734) stocks of whiskey and he’s just kind of, it’s his playground, right? It’s his opportunity to be creative. So it’s like, I’ve been in whiskey for so long and this is, you know, this is my style. This is my expertise. These are whiskies that I’m creating because I feel like they have broad, you know, reach people. I, know, people are going to really attach to them. Jake Lewellen (14:01.282) Yeah, it’s super interesting. And you know what the price of barrels now, there are people that are entering this space to maybe create a small owned brand, an NDP, or to just put out more stuff, right? I think the buff turkey craze is over, thank the Lord. And we’re moving on to other things. And so that leads us to, we’ve got some two unique samples to kind of talk about today from a tasting perspective. You know, we kind of unpacked it. And I’ll pause here. Just one, remember you can engage with us a variety of different ways, whether that’s on YouTube, whether that’s through social media, make sure you’re following Bourbon Lens, making sure you’re subscribed to Bourbon Lens on YouTube. And we want to know your thoughts. Who’s your favorite non-producing distiller? Who is your favorite independent bottler? What’s your favorite bottle? from those places. Brad, we’re talking to you. Brandon, we’re talking to you. Let us know. You all are our Scotch guys as well as Sean. What do you all see? What do you like? Put those in the comments. We’d love to have our Patreon members as well as our… larger bourbon lens following engage with us on our social media and our YouTube platforms. So we got two different distillers or we have two different NDPs that we’re gonna talk about. One is Watch Hill Proper, we had an episode with them. And then the other one is the Bourbon Swami, right? That would be Dark Arts, we’re gonna talk a little bit about those. So dealer’s choice, you get to pick where we go first from a conversation perspective here. Scott – BourbonLens (15:39.517) I say we start with the dark arts because the proof on the watch hill is definitely not for the faint of heart. Jake Lewellen (15:47.158) Yeah. All right. So let’s talk about Dark Arts. Dark Arts is run by Macaulay and you do know her from formerly it’s Bourbon Night. Sarah is a part of that team as well as of other, a lot of other great people. They have burst on the scenes with their unique, you know, bottle design. I’ll pull that up here so you all can see. Scott – BourbonLens (15:48.73) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (16:09.89) There’s a guy doing some alchemy, looks like. And this is their new dank arts, which is, you know, they call their blunt blend. And so it’s really interesting. McCauley is a, an eclectic individual. I don’t know him, but it seems like from the outside looking in, he he’s got his hands in just about everything. He’s got style that I could not pull off. So good for him. And just being his unique self, cause the Bourbons are unique in themselves and what he’s, what he and his team have created. Scott – BourbonLens (16:40.964) Yeah, and he took a lot of his his knowledge and know how from a larger distillery wilderness trail and then, you know, brought it to a much smaller scale. I’m sure that eventually he’s gonna say, you much, he’s gonna go big scale and and but not lose that touch. Right. So I think that’s just listening to some some of the things that he said over the years. And I think that he wanted that more like one on one feel with the whiskey rather than just large scale production. So I think that an NDP route for someone like that is a great route, you know. Otherwise, he’s gonna have to wait five, six, eight, 10 years before any of the whiskey is ready that he would have distilled. Jake Lewellen (17:32.782) Mmm. Yeah, no, it’s very interesting. So I think you’re drinking the bourbon junkies versus it’s bourbon night mizunara I think is that right? Scott – BourbonLens (17:47.387) I’m not sure if they’re mizunara cask, but… Jake Lewellen (17:50.914) I’m 100 % sure they’re mizunara Cask Because I poured the samples. Scott – BourbonLens (17:53.997) Okay, that might kind of explain a lot then. Jake Lewellen (17:57.356) Yeah, so you’re going to get that Sandalwood note in there. And one second. Jake Lewellen (18:08.216) you’re gonna get that sandalwood note in there that will really kind of round out that bourbon, which that mizunara is known for. Scott – BourbonLens (18:16.92) Yeah, and then when I poured both of these into the glass, I immediately thought like, wow, both of those have a lot of fruit like jumping out of the glass like it, especially the bourbon night. That was the first one I poured. And it’s I literally wrote fruit just jumped out of the glass raspberries cherries and more like it’s just boom it’s there. Jake Lewellen (18:42.232) Yeah, and I actually did a tasting on this for five minute Fridays or Thursday thoughts over the summer last year. So check out my thoughts there. I don’t have that one in front of me. I’m actually sipping on the new Blunt Blend, which, know, I, again, I’m gonna be honest. You can call me a square, whatever, everybody that’s listened to this. I’ve never smoked the Mary Jane. And at 36 years old, I’m not gonna start now. So, you know, this eight year old straight rye whiskey finished in Madeira and in Arminia casks, you know, it’s opened up. I’ve had a couple sips out of this. Man, this is… Scott – BourbonLens (19:11.413) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (19:26.926) a really nice finish if you like rye finished whiskies and I think they’re doing a lot of cool stuff there like they’re not just kind of resting on their laurels they’re doing like multiple blends to get like you know It’s a little bit here. It’s a little bit there. Like I would love to know McCully’s process. And that’s someone I want to have on the podcast soon is to talk a little bit about how he blends, right? Because, you know, I’m looking at this other one called the, ripple rye, which is a straight rye finished in maple barrels with toasted Ombre on oak staves. It’s like, he’s doing some unique things. He’s doing some, some, some things like how did he go through that process? How does he create those flavor profiles with his team? because these are two very unique whiskies that I have in front of me. And honestly, the Blunt Blend sells out like that. Like it is a really hot commodity because he’s made some really good whiskies under that title. So I’m interested to see what they do and how they do because it’s full flavored whiskey no matter what you pour from him. Scott – BourbonLens (20:17.358) Yeah. Scott – BourbonLens (20:36.814) Yeah, and maybe that raises an interesting point about the distinction between in the NDPs and independent bottlers. NDPs aren’t quite as afraid to finish whiskeys and it seems like independent bottlers are highlighting the whiskey, not just their finishing capability. I don’t know did has Jake Lewellen (20:54.551) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (21:05.261) Mmm. Scott – BourbonLens (21:06.617) Has Lost Lantern done any finishing casks? Jake Lewellen (21:10.636) Not to my knowledge. Now, they have done some stuff where, so, which is really interesting with Lost Lantern because they have gotten into the non-producing distiller part of it, right? They have done the far flung. They have done far-flung two, they’ve done far-flung rye, they’ve done the American vatted single malt. So they’ve done some things where they’ve done some non-producing distiller stuff, but the level of transparency that they’ve done it under feels more independent bottler-ish even though they’re batching it together, right? I think the clear difference to me, Scott – BourbonLens (21:47.831) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (21:51.742) in NDPs and independent dollars is the clear level of transparency. Where did it come from? What are the ratios? How did you blend it? How did you do this? Would McCauley tell us this? I don’t know. Does he have any NDAs, right? Like all of those things you have to take into account for. The hot take, I think the day of the NDA needs to go away when it comes to whiskey blending. Because you’re only going to help your brand if they know it’s your component. Scott – BourbonLens (22:21.975) Yeah, well, I don’t know if it’s the source or the receiver that’s the one that’s been pushing the NDA. Right, like back in the day, seems like… Scott – BourbonLens (22:38.967) the NDPs would have wanted people to know. Yeah, this is MGP because this is where you can get the really good stuff. But maybe now it’s well, we don’t know what’s going out. We don’t know what’s going to end up in the final bottle. We don’t want to put our name on it. So the producer, the actual distiller is saying, No, just keep us out of it. Jake Lewellen (23:03.564) I I can see that. I can see that because again, I’ve said it twice on this damn podcast. I’m like making it gross steam again. Like buff turkey, like everything couldn’t have been buff turkey in 2025. It couldn’t have been. There just wasn’t that much. But every release was buff turkey. How does that make any sense? Scott – BourbonLens (23:22.936) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (23:28.588) So it does give some mystique. You leak that out, you get that to the right source, the right mouthpiece, and it’s all of a sudden you’re 16 year old. It could have been Sazerac, it could have been Jim Beam, it could have been whatever. that’s buff turkey. Like those things are really interesting to me. So you do have some little bit of guys and display that you can kind of come underneath that and change it with. So it is very interesting to say the least. Scott – BourbonLens (23:46.114) Yeah. Scott – BourbonLens (23:59.202) Yeah. And for the people that want to know like exact ratio mash bills, you know, blend components, it’s, it’s hard because an NDP is going to say, well, we only got so much room on the label. You know, we can’t put everything out there, but if you’re just bottling one producer and it’s one mash bill, not a, not a blend of mash bills, a little bit easier. So like an independent bottle or can just slap it on the front of the label if they want and say here it is this is what it is Jake Lewellen (24:36.376) Yeah. It’s definitely interesting. so that kind of makes me switch gears here to the other one we have. So watch your proper is one of the American whiskey libraries kind of like it sits up there with the Jack roses or I forget the name. There’s one that starts with an on the West Coast. Multinoma, I believe is what it’s called out in Seattle or Portland, one of the two that has a huge whiskey library. But I think Watchel Proper is known for the largest American whiskey library in the country. I think that’s their title. What they go for. They’ve got an executive chef there that makes great food. and they’re doing a lot of really cool things. And so they have come out with an exceptional series, which we have the 18 and they also have a chef series where their chef has blended components of a rye whiskey to bring out. And so we both have the 18 year old in our glass. And I just have to say right away, whatever barrel they picked, wherever this came from, it is an exceptional whiskey. Is it worth $500? That is the question you have to ask yourself, but it is an exceptional. whiskey. Scott – BourbonLens (25:51.063) Yeah, it’s a it’s definitely a pricey whiskey. Super limited. I think there’s like 100 and 150 bottles like not a lot. So it’s a single barrel. Make sure I’m gonna make sure I’m saying that right. Maybe wrong. Maybe it’s not a single barrel. Maybe it is a batch. The chef series is a single barrel. Sorry. But 18 year old Kentucky straight bourbon unfinished. So it’s like the purest Kentucky bourbon you’re going to find. I mean, some of the oldest you’re going to find as well. 18 year. And it’s super traditional super like this is old bourbon like it just it just feels well aged. Jake Lewellen (26:41.762) Yeah, I mean, I think that’s the nice thing is it feels, it feels and tastes like Kentucky bourbon should be, right? and I hate, I use the word quintessential probably too much, but this is what I think about older Kentucky stocks tasting. Like this is what that, that. Scott – BourbonLens (27:03.371) Mm. Jake Lewellen (27:04.916) older, whether it’s a heritage distillery or kind of some one off thing. I think this is a really well done bourbon nose to finish. To take a line from my buddy Schmidt from New Girl, no notes. I got no notes on this one. It just is, it is good. Don’t think about it, just enjoy it. If you get a chance to sip it. Scott – BourbonLens (27:29.716) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I sat down with it last night for a small pour to get some tasting notes. and it’s just earthy, it’s dark, it’s got a little bit of like chocolate notes to it. One of the most interesting one I found was it’s got like this melted tootsie roll. Like so it’s a little chocolatey but it’s not quite like dark chocolate or you know something like that but it’s just candy chocolate goodness. Super concentrated, I mean it’s a high proof whiskey so. Jake Lewellen (27:52.11) Mmm. Scott – BourbonLens (28:09.714) A lot of those flavors are super concentrated. Jake Lewellen (28:14.232) Yeah. And you know, I think, the team there is, is very thoughtful and everything they do. We sat down and we talked with them a couple years ago. Now it’s been a while since we’ve been out to watch you proper. Would love to get back there. I still want to eat, eat there as like an actual, like sit down and eat. We went out there for a five trail event, back. Scott – BourbonLens (28:29.171) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (28:40.046) a couple years ago, but I really want to experience the food in a full way, right? Like, and enjoy that in a full way. So it’s really interesting. I’m excited for, you know, what they continue to come out with this 18 year old bourbon again, like it’s a very, very good. Scott – BourbonLens (29:01.053) Yeah, I’m guessing that they probably have a few bottles on the shelf, but then I’d imagine that they put a few behind the bar for, you know, like your after dinner pour. Like this would be a great like treat. It’s like, it’s like, I can go for the pappy or let’s maybe try something a little bit older and probably a little bit cheaper. Jake Lewellen (29:15.445) 100%. Jake Lewellen (29:23.042) Yeah. Yeah, mean, cause I mean the price of poker has gone up on all bottles that are extremely aged. I they’re all getting a little pricey because there’s two types of people in this world and I’m not, you can be either. You can be the guy who goes after rare bourbons and they are priced appropriately or MSRP between 250 and a thousand dollars, right? If you get them at SRP. And then there’s the price, the type of person that’s going to pay between 35 and $75. That’s the majority of us. That’s me. That’s you. Right. Um, and like, I’ll even go down to 20 to JTS Brown and Evan Williams, white label to include more of what we buy, but like, you know, I don’t think you would sweat a $40 bottle. I’m not sweating a $40 bottle, but if it gets up to 75, then I’m like thinking about it a lot. Like Scott – BourbonLens (30:21.108) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (30:22.142) Should I spin this? Right? Now, granted, I will tell everyone we are lucky. We have gotten sample after sample after sample after sample. And thank you to all the brands. So I don’t necessarily have to buy whiskey. Right? Scott – BourbonLens (30:35.797) Yeah. So we I mean, we do need to be more discerning to I mean, we’re probably more like the average consumer because it’s like, do I really need another $40 bottle of whiskey? Do I really need another $60 bottle of whiskey? Probably not. But do I want it? Yeah. And have I heard great things about it? Yeah. So, you know, the average consumer probably is only buying a bottle a month. Right? Like, not everybody’s buying a bottle every other day, like Jake Lewellen (30:52.44) Yeah. Scott – BourbonLens (31:04.956) some bourbon hunters might be. So it’s like Jake Lewellen (31:07.638) Not everybody’s bruisle and that guy, that guy spends more money on bourbon than anyone I know. Scott – BourbonLens (31:13.99) I mean, he’s had probably had to build a bigger house two times since he started this journey, but. Jake Lewellen (31:19.916) No, but I mean, it is cool. There’s people, him, Bourbon Hunter, Texas, I think is his YouTube handle. Like they’ll go and they’ll hunt and they’ll buy. Good for them. My liver is only good to process so much, personally. Scott – BourbonLens (31:35.763) Right, right. And just trying to keep up with even a small pour, you know, half ounce pour here, half ounce pour there. You’re like, all right, all right. But that’s why whiskey’s got to be good, right? It’s like, if it’s not good, you’re just going to kind of set it to the side and maybe hope that somebody comes over that wants to make some cocktails. And that’s the first one you’re going to pour. But. Jake Lewellen (31:41.517) Yeah. Scott – BourbonLens (32:01.256) Going back to this whiskey, this rye whiskey, I think you’ll really like it if you’ve not tasted it yet. Jake Lewellen (32:04.722) so I went from the blunt blend to this one and I like how straight it is versus the blunt blend having all that extra flavor and finish. like how it’s a straightforward, no nonsense rye whiskey. Scott – BourbonLens (32:19.784) Yeah, so it’s 12 year old single barrel and super hot proof. 130.4. Jake Lewellen (32:22.412) Yeah, I mean it is. This is gonna be what, 130? Jake Lewellen (32:30.686) like I knew this was hot. Like hot in not a bad way, but I knew it was warm. Scott – BourbonLens (32:37.148) Well, and I see kind of some of the chef’s influences because there’s a lot of like interesting spices in it. Like one of the spices I got was cardamom. Like there’s this granola that we buy, but it’s like made with cardamom. And I think that’s probably the first time I’ve ever truly like identified cardamom as a component. And it’s probably been in some dishes or whatever, or desserts that I’ve had in the past, but just never really knew what it was. but that’s almost like spot on. Like black pepper, cardamom, a lot of like charred like orange peel. Like when you make it old fashioned, you kind of flame the peel. Yeah. Jake Lewellen (33:20.942) Flaming the peel. I’m not that fancy, but I get what you’re Pick it up what you’re putting down. Scott – BourbonLens (33:27.505) Yeah, so like, I would appreciate that this is part of the chef series more so than the 18 year bourbon because I feel like this is lending itself to more creativity in the kitchen. Jake Lewellen (33:44.172) You know, I’m waiting for more like bourbon reduction stuff. Like I could see this because also this is the first place I ever had steak tartare, which was, was great by the way. you know, I could see them using this reduction, like a duck, like a duck sauce, to like coat a duck breast. And I feel like I always have foo foo food at, bourbon events. It’s like, Like, you know what? You have an elevated palate. We’re going to feed you duck. And I’m like, I’ve never had duck before in my life, before I sat here. Like, you know what I eat with my bourbon? A hamburger. A steak. Yeah, like, well, so like, you know, for me, it’s really interesting. I will not have a whiskey with my steak. This is a complete aside because the thermodynamics of both of them, I don’t want to get super hot. Scott – BourbonLens (34:20.305) Yeah. Scott – BourbonLens (34:25.008) Yeah, maybe maybe a steak really film a fancy. Scott – BourbonLens (34:41.671) yeah, I see what you’re saying. Jake Lewellen (34:42.542) So like I want my steak and that’s when I drink either a lot of water or I order my diet Coke and I enjoy my diet Coke with my steak. And then I will, I typically will go wine, water, bourbon. Like when I have a steak dinner because I want something refreshing with my salad course or my soup course. And then I want something. Scott – BourbonLens (34:49.435) Yeah. Jake Lewellen (35:06.542) that’s not really impacting my palate to enjoy the steak. And then I want like my bourbon after the fact is kind of my dessert instead of having a dessert. 150 calories versus 500 calories. Scott – BourbonLens (35:14.29) Mm. Scott – BourbonLens (35:19.814) little bourbon and ice cream. just that’s like the perfect the perfect mix. Jake Lewellen (35:22.044) Ugh. You just, just, graders just released their strawberry chip, for April and May. So I’m about to go buy a bunch of pints of, of graders ice cream. But anywho, let us know again, what’s your favorite independent bottler? What’s your favorite non-producing distiller? If there’s someone that we’ve not tried, we’d love to get in touch with them. So send your comments below and we’ll catch you next time on the bourbon lens. Cheers. Scott – BourbonLens (35:37.926) Yeah. Yeah. Scott – BourbonLens (35:53.329) Cheers.